Dental Unscripted | Getting into Ownership and Practice Management Insights

Welcome to Dental Unscripted,

where Mike Dinsio and

Paula Quinn break down the

practice ownership journey,

one episode at a time.

Starting up, buying,

and running a successful dental practice.

All right, all right, all right,

here we go.

Another episode of Dental Unscripted.

This is a special,

special week as we are

heading into Shark Week,

Dental Shark Week.

I haven't done a Shark Week in,

I don't know, a year or so.

I think we just skipped last year.

But for those of you that are old school,

that followed me many years,

many moons ago, I did a Shark Week.

And that week is essentially

a week of fantastic

interviews on one particular topic.

And we started from the West

Coast and we would work our

way across to the East Coast.

And it was an interview

every single day on that topic.

And this year,

the episodes will be

dedicated to dental construction.

And in the world of startups, construction,

construction,

construction is what matters.

And it's the one thing that chews up

about seventy to eighty

percent of your total

budget of a startup.

So these folks,

these experts in the

industry will have so much

to give to you all throughout this week.

I'm super excited about it.

No shark suit this year.

Maybe we put that back on

for the last episode.

I don't know,

but Shark Week is here and

let's get the party started.

Real quick,

before we pivot into the

episode and introduce the

guests of today.

I do want to remind you all,

if you are listening to

this on a startup

unscripted channel or the

dental acquisition unscripted channel,

I need you to flip over to

the dental unscripted channel.

It's just dental unscripted.

It's a turquoise and navy blue logo.

We're consolidating the two

programs into one.

And if you guys have been following us,

we're not only talking

about startups and acquisitions,

but we're also giving you a

lot of amazing practice

management episodes.

So Paula and Stefani and the

whole team over at Next

Level have all kinds of

practice management good stuff.

It's not just Mike D'Incio's show.

Now it's Paula Quinn, Mike D'Incio's.

And for those of you that

are getting to know Paul

and the rest of the team,

you're in for a treat.

It's a special program.

We love doing our podcast.

So, all right.

Without further ado,

Shark Week kicks off with

one of my favorite friends,

a guy that I respect a ton

in the industry up here in

the Pacific Northwest.

as we are sitting here in

the Seattle Puget Sound area.

And I have the pleasure to

be speaking with Dustin

Long with Big Sky Construction.

And he's been wanting to do

this program for so long.

Buddy, welcome to the show.

It's great to see you.

Mike, you know what?

This is really cool.

You're right.

We have been wanting to do this.

I've

Very excited to be on the podcast.

And while you might be

sitting in the Pacific Northwest,

I'm actually sitting in Dallas, Texas.

Okay.

Because not only is Big Sky

taking over the Pacific

Northwest when it comes to dental builds,

we are also now taking over Texas.

Well,

that makes sense because if you're

watching on YouTube,

Dustin's got a big...

cowboy hat sitting on top of

his head for the record

dustin wore cowboy hats

before his company was in

texas so this is all part

of the dustin long show

dustin that's huge news uh

and and super exciting for

you my friend thanks it is

tell us a little bit about

big sky man I got to meet

you uh I don't know

Six years ago, maybe five years.

I don't know.

At least.

Yeah.

No.

Well, you know, Big Sky.

There are two Big Skies.

Big Sky Northwest.

We've been building now

dental offices for the last ten years.

We just hit our ten year mark.

uh which is fantastic I know

it's it's it's awesome

we've got a great team we

know how to do this we walk

our clients and it's just

it's been a great

experience um and so now

it's really cool to come down to texas

and take over my family's business,

Big Sky.

It's been building here in

DFW for over forty years.

And now we're going to be

expanding our book of

business here into dental as well.

So, you know, Big Sky

I like to share, first of all,

we're not just a contractor.

Uh-oh.

We're getting deep already.

We're getting deep with this conversation.

We are.

We can get deeper later if I

can get deep now.

We are a partner to the

client that assists them

through not just construction,

but the entire process,

which I know we'll be getting into more.

But Big Sky...

For today's purposes,

for the listeners out there,

we're the best dental

builders in the Pacific

Northwest and now moving

down to the South as well.

And yeah,

I think that's high level of who we are.

I'm going to let you help us dig deeper.

that's great dustin I I love

I love kind of where your

head's at right now guys we

don't prepare for this

episode at all it's totally

unscripted hence the title

so um if it's choppy and

raw and uncut that's the

way it's supposed to be

this is just two dudes

talking I happen to be in

the studio but um the the

truth is is there's all

there's so much stuff in

dustin's brain that I need

to pull out for the program

And the goal here is just to

educate you guys all on

what you're all getting

into as you pursue a

startup or even if it's

established doctor looking

to relocate and build your dream office.

We're starting to build our

community of listeners,

of practice owners,

current practice owners.

So it's not just startups, but startups.

In typical Shark Week fashion,

let's start digging into

some of the things that's in my mind,

my brain,

that I would love the audience to hear.

And so the first thing that

I just want to go to, Dustin,

is exactly where you were heading,

is how does a contractor

partner with my clients, with dentists,

earlier on and I'm going to

preface that is like look

everybody wants to talk to

the client talk to the

doctor super early on

they're all kind of

jockeying for position to

try to gain the the the

attention of the doctor

because there's a sale

involved and I'm doing air

quotes a sale yep but part

of my job as a consultant

is just to kind of like

let's put all that other

stuff kind of on hold

because the first thing we

really need to do is we

need to get a space.

We need to negotiate that space.

And I did a shark week, real estate week,

uh, years ago.

But once we kind of get

through the meat and

potatoes of that space,

now we need to begin due

diligence on that space.

And I think the contractor

has a huge role to play in,

in that due diligence process, Dustin,

am I smoking something here

or am I on the right path?

No, you're absolutely right.

And you know, the,

the air quotes of people

trying to get a position into the project,

you've got,

you've got your contractors

who are client might have bid on the job.

Yeah.

Then you've got big sky.

Our focal point early on is

building the project on

paper that entails the space and

understanding the challenges

that come with the space

that the doctor is looking at,

understanding that the

doctor now needs to

establish a fiscal budget

to start talking to the bank about.

We've got to start talking

to the client about design,

making sure that we

understand that the budget

and the design need to coincide together.

Yeah, they do.

Way too often when a client

kind of steps out of the

bounds of what we would

consider to be norm,

you end up getting a project that is

designed with all their heart's content,

their dreams, their thoughts,

these ideas.

And then all of a sudden it's like, oh man,

we never thought about the

budget during this process.

Now we're twenty, thirty,

forty percent over budget.

What do we do?

Stepping back,

taking the proper steps

through the what we call

the design build model.

We are working with the

client and every just like next level.

You're also there part of

the table making sure

because we all have these special

skill sets, we've got the knowledge.

And so now we're taking this

client from this conceptual idea of,

I want to start a practice.

And it could take six,

nine months of building

this project on paper

before we're actually building it.

You know, it's funny that you say that,

Dustin,

because I had my admin track this

just the other day.

If you guys know Abby,

shout out to Abby McCoy,

the best assistant of all time.

and I asked abby I'm like

look go back five years and

tell me how long from when

a client signed my contract

to work with me in next

level to the time that they

signed the lease so this is

like concept to lease nine

months was the average

Isn't that crazy?

So nine months from the time

that they're like, hey,

I think I want to do a

startup to the time that

they sign the lease, which folks,

to give you a timeline,

by the time you sign the lease,

you need the contractor on

your team signed, committed, ready to go.

You need the equipment reps ready to roll.

You need the architects, space planners,

if they're involved, ready to roll.

All these people got to be

ready to roll when you sign

the lease so that Dustin and his team,

architects,

and we're going to get into that,

can submit for permits immediately.

Immediately.

And so to your point, yeah, you, Dustin,

could be involved a solid

six months before the

doctor even signs the lease,

before you're even swinging hammers.

Right.

Let's walk through that due

diligence checklist that

Dustin goes through.

When you're looking at a space,

what should your contractor

be looking at and helping

the real estate guy or gal

negotiate a better space?

What are the things that are

really important for a

dentist to think about when

you're looking at a space

to rent and build out for yourself?

What do you look at?

Totally.

Great questions.

First, we start with some requirements of

What are the goals of the client?

Are they a specialist?

How many operatories?

Because we can walk into a space,

they found a great

a retail location that's

fifteen hundred feet and

they want eight ops.

OK, Doc,

we need to step back and rethink

the size of space.

So we need to understand a

little bit of the business

model of the client before

even approaching a space.

Once we've got that established,

we start looking at some spaces.

First thing we're doing broker Big Sky.

We're starting to talk about

the space and the

challenges that are brought

from that space.

We can build a dental office anywhere.

I can stick a chair up on a

roof of a high rise.

So now it's understanding

the challenges that this

particular space is going to bring to us,

how it's going to impact our budget,

how it's going to impact our timing,

what city or entity is

reviewing for permits,

because some could take four weeks,

some could take twenty weeks.

So now we need to make sure

the broker understands this

because they're using a lot

of that information to

leverage to the client to

negotiate the deal.

That's right.

Lots of things there.

Timing.

Exactly.

So like the,

the big things that I'm

thinking of is no one

really knows the

mechanicals like a contractor, right?

The real estate guy doesn't

gal guy doesn't,

definitely not the

consultant equipment people

meh not really like

attorneys definitely don't

so like all the people that

are putting these deals

together on paper as far as

legal and negotiation

someone's got to look at

the mechanicals can you

explain what the

mechanicals are when I'm

you know what I'm talking

about what are you looking

at specifically yeah

We walk into a space, you know,

a dental office

infrastructure is quite

different than an insurance office.

So when we walk in there,

we're looking at the

electrical capacities that

are there in the space.

If those aren't adequate,

we might have to upgrade those.

That could be six, ten thousand dollars.

You need to know that.

Exactly.

Exactly.

You need to know that.

HVAC there's so much heat

gain and or loss depending

on the time of year with

the equipment all the you

know the chairs the

sterilization the

mechanical room reception

everyone's looking for a

different the same comfort zone but

it's going to differentiate

between different sides of

the office so understanding

the hvac what kind of

challenges can we deal with

the existing do we need to

upgrade do we need to add

same for the plumbing you

know your average retail

center is going to have one

restroom and maybe a staff

lounge dental offices we

could add twelve to fifteen

plumbing fixtures within

that space do we have the

adequate water supply and

the adequate sanitary see

you don't know this walking

into it all of a sudden you

might be hit with twenty

thirty thousand dollars

worth of upgrades you had

no idea about and those are

not good surprises and it's

happened look like uh I

don't want to get into this

too much but if you watch

some of the old episodes go

to dental unscripted.com

and then go to um archived

episodes go back five years

we're talking about the same crap

go to shark week, real estate week.

There's seven episodes.

And I interviewed all these

real estate people.

I don't want to go into this, but like,

The landlord wants a dentist

in their space because

you're an anchor tenant.

You're bringing all these

amazing patients in.

You're a safe business.

You're probably not going to default.

Odds are ninety ninety nine percent.

Ninety eight percent of you

will not default.

Very safe.

You're also going to improve

their space because

Dustin's going to build a

beautiful office.

You're doing all these

wonderful things for the landlord.

The landlord, again,

is gonna give you some

stuff like tenant

improvements and free rent.

Again, go back to that episode.

But Dustin's the one that's gonna say,

Hey, what you have here,

Mr. Landlord is not

adequate for a dentist and

you need to help us make it adequate.

And that's a negotiating point.

And by the way,

it has nothing to do with

Dustin's construction contract.

Any of these contractors

that we interviewed this week,

that is all high value ad.

That's why it's a

relationship in the front end.

So, yeah,

I think this is really

important because the

contractor that you choose

to partner with can save

you a lot of money.

They're going to cost you a

lot of money just by the

nature of the business that they're in,

but they're also going to

save you a lot of money too.

Absolutely.

Right?

And that goes all the way to

the negotiations of the space.

So would you say that's

where the beginning of your

relationship begins then, Doc, or Doc,

Dustin,

is helping the doc look at the space,

And unfold the vision there

and try to help the real

estate professional negotiate.

That's probably the biggest

piece in this first start.

That's exactly right.

It's understanding that real

estate to help the broker

leverage to the landlord.

But then that information is

also utilized to now

transfer to the designer.

Yeah.

So this is...

I'm glad you're

transitioning to this

because we're going to go there.

Go ahead.

The foundation continues to

build on paper.

We're now using that

information to transfer to

the designer and say, hey, listen,

this is where the existing

infrastructure is.

These are how tall the windows are.

Here's where the beams are located.

That way,

when we're doing our initial

concept designs, we don't have to

completely change them or

make major modifications

because we weren't aware of

what challenges the shell

might have presented to us

we don't want to stick a

mechanical room all the way

across uh the other side of

the space when the main

water line is on the

opposite side yeah now we

have to extend the main

water all the way so we're

looking at all these you know hey

Maybe that's only a few

thousand dollar increase, but still,

that's a few thousand

dollar that we can save

from day one just knowing

that information.

That's a sensor, guys.

That's a sensor, right?

Absolutely.

So I think that's really good.

I think that's really good.

So we covered due diligence

and where the partnership begins.

You kind of alluded to where

I'm heading with the program,

and that is our relationship,

our relationship from a

client and a contractor and

a space planner slash architect.

I really want to get into

this because Dustin, you're really good.

I've worked with you for many years now.

We've built a lot of

Beautiful offices.

Our clients have really

benefited from working with Big Sky,

which is why you're on the program.

You do a great job.

Thank you.

One of the things that I

really like about you is

how you truly hold my

client's hand through the

permitting process.

And I have to say,

this is one of the more

complicated conversations

that I have with my clients

because they all want to

bid they want to bid

because they don't want to

take be taken advantage by

construction knowing that

construction is going to be

seventy plus percent of

their entire budget they

want to make sure that

that's a good number right

absolutely I get that you

would too ever anybody

would especially if it's

that big of a ticket item

yeah right for sure for

sure construction's your

biggest one that you have

to manage otherwise you're

you're in trouble with with lending

But at the same time,

we need your help so much

to get through the planning.

So I would love for you to

just describe the process.

whether it's you by yourself

or you in partnership with

somebody and how you get a

client from concept floor plan and,

and a floor plan is just chicken scratch.

It's oftentimes the

equipment guys are putting

a floor plan together.

Next level oftentimes

provides a floor plan.

I outsource that service,

but it's just like kind of

like a rudimentary floor plan.

It's not the final floor plan.

Someone's got to take that floor plan,

that concept and,

and get it to permits that

the city will approve and

there's a lot to say about

that so dustin how do you

how are you going to

approach that question

that's a tough question

it's a loaded question how

do you get it from concept

to permit go well

Hey,

I think we need to educate the

audience in this process.

It's weird.

And we got to talk about it.

Totally.

A lot goes into that.

So at concept,

we've got the basic flow of the practice.

We've got the basic

requirements set of what

the doctor wants in that moment.

Now we need to dig deep into

the nuts and bolts of the

actual practice.

Is this, you know,

what is the now and what

does the future look like

for this business?

Are you going to add another

doc at some point?

Are you going to have associates?

What's the hygiene versus restorative?

Or if you're a specialist, you know,

what does that look like?

Now,

then we start talking about equipment

needs as well.

You know, delivery units.

Are they at the twelve?

Are they at the chair?

X-rays, TVs on the ceiling.

Are you educating and

wanting entertainment for

patients while in a restorative case?

You know,

all these questions go into

finalizing the details of that practice.

That's right.

Now, once we've got that,

then we have to understand, okay,

what is the city now going

to be looking for from us

to approve a permit?

I love it.

So there's this kind of like step one,

step two.

There's like,

what do you need to do what

you're trying to do?

Right.

And then there's what is the city need?

Correct.

And every city is different.

That's the that's the

complexity of this freaking

conversation is I might

have a client in

Tallahassee and a client in Tacoma,

Washington, and a client in the East Bay,

California.

And my answer is not the

same for all of them.

Because I don't know what

Tacoma is going to say

compared to Tallahassee,

compared to East Bay.

Right.

Because all those cities are different.

So, Dustin, help us out with the city.

And do we need partners?

It's an option to get a partner involved.

But do we need partners?

And how does that work with

contractors and all that?

Well, Mike,

I'm going to step back just one

step real quick.

Beautiful.

In my design-build model…

I've had the conversation

with the client that says, listen,

I understand this idea.

We are the biggest part of the budget.

Um,

six to nine months of my upfront time

is going to be given to you for free,

regardless of whether you

use big sky or not,

just because that's who we are.

And I want my knowledge

given to every client to

set them up for success.

That's right.

That's part of that due

diligence that we talked about earlier.

It is.

Now there is a point though,

where I tell the doc, okay, listen,

give me the benefit of the

doubt let me get you all

the way through this

process let me get you to

the budgeting stage once I

budgeted if I'm hitting

your budget let's keep

going because that next

step you're right if we get

into permits and they're

not design building this uh practice

you do have to bring in

outside partners that are

going to cost a lot more

going to take quite a bit

more time and they're going

to they're going to design

and engineer systems that

the city will approve but

traditionally are way over

engineered than what is

actually needed we are the

dental specialist we design

build in-house in-house

engineers we know exactly

what is needed yes

I love that you said that.

So you're using this word

called design build.

Yes.

And from plans to permit and this topic,

this is very important.

You've got two paths.

you got one path to get an architect,

like Dustin said,

space planner slash

architect to drive it from plans for plan,

basic rudimentary,

basic plans to permitting

without the contractor.

Right.

And then the contractor will

pick it up from there and

bid it or another,

another route is design build.

And he used the word design build.

And that's a very important

thing because some contractors are,

don't need architects and

too much help from space planners.

And they can take it from

that floor plan all the way

into permitting.

And there are some benefits

to design build.

So let's talk about that.

Staying within this plans to permit topic,

let's talk about design build.

So what are the benefits?

I know I'm, I want you to say it.

Yeah, absolutely.

What are the benefits?

You said it fast.

I want you to slow down and

describe what you mean

there of design build totally where,

where the builder takes you

from floor plan to permit.

Go ahead.

Yes.

The design build model is a

collaboration of the contractor,

They're still a designer,

whether they're in-house or

a separate vendor and the client.

We are building this project

on paper together,

making sure that the needs

and requirements plus the

budget are all hit prior to

submitting for permit.

We are giving the city

exactly what is needed in

order to approve this dental office.

Beautiful.

Now,

what that does is it's saving you time.

Because in the other model

where you have an architect and engineers,

the engineers I can a

hundred percent guarantee

to you are over-engineering

because they're not building.

Yeah, exactly.

They're not building these

systems or warranty this system.

So they're going to

over-engineer to make sure

that they're meeting the need,

but traditionally they're way more.

Contractors stepping in

after all these systems are built,

Or designed, not built, designed.

Designed, excuse me, yes.

Over budget,

we're now having to value engineer the...

the mental enjoyment of the

experience is going down

because now the client's looking at,

what do I cut?

How do I delete?

And you're usually the bad guy.

The contractor's usually the bad guy.

Let's take a step back.

So I like what you're saying.

And do I think...

Having an architect involved

is a terrible idea.

The answer is no.

And I think even Dustin will

say it's a no also.

However,

this design build model is you're

truly partnering with the

contractor and they're

trying to be as fast as

possible to get you into permits.

with budget in mind and and

the reason I say that

that's really cool because

I was an ex-banker you all

know that if you've been

following the program for a

while I was an ex-banker

and I'm gonna tell you

right now this is a true

story I'm not exaggerating

I tend to sometimes

exaggerate to prove a point

I am not on this on this

comment in the in all the

years that I have worked as

a lender and a con a consultant

Not one architect would call

me on one of my client's

projects as a banker and

consultant and ask what the budget was.

They never asked me.

So an architect sometimes just, well,

not sometimes,

pretty much just designs it

and gets it prepared for the city,

which is very important.

But they're just kind of designing it.

And then we throw it at the contractor.

This is the bid, right?

The bid route,

we're not talking about design build,

the bid route.

And we throw it to the contractor and say,

hey, we just designed this thing.

Can you quote it?

And no one up to that point

has even discussed budget yet.

And the funny thing is, is most of my,

the very first thing that the designers,

architects say to my client

is get a Pinterest account

and start giving me your ideas.

Well,

what do you think everybody's

interested in, in Pinterest?

It's the nicest stuff.

It's most beautiful finishes.

And that's what you're

pinning and sending into

the architect and the

architects creating that.

And giving it to Dustin and

more than fifty percent of the time,

the budget is blown and

then we have to go backwards.

And that's exactly what

Dustin was saying is it's

not a very pleasant

experience when you tell me the client,

hey, you can have this beautiful office.

let's design it and have the

contractor bid it.

And then all the contractors

come in way overpriced.

And now my client, now the client's like,

man,

I was kind of bummed because I saw a

lot of glass and great

lighting and amazing wall covers.

And now they got to strip

all that out because you're the bad guy,

Dustin.

Exactly.

Something different.

I want to add to that real quick.

So when you have found

yourself in that position, yeah.

We now need to figure out how to delete,

reduce, cut, and then redesign.

And then redesign.

And then rebid.

Which time?

You're talking about eight, ten,

twelve weeks.

What does that twelve weeks

equate to seeing patients?

In business, yeah.

I could tell you what it

equates to as a startup.

The first two months of a

startup are somewhere around five months

depending on how busy you

get right out of the gate

with some of our marketing

efforts and stuff, for the first month,

somewhere between five and

ten thousand dollars.

And then the next month,

usually somewhere between

ten to fifteen thousand dollars.

So you might be looking at

first two months is twenty

five thousand dollars of

sales that you're you're not

getting and then you're

also spending it on the

front end so it does add up

um so thank you dustin for

that so so when a

contractor um does bring up

this idea of design build

what are some great

questions to ask them to kind of get out

the inner in the interview process,

what are some good

questions that the audience

should be asking you, Dustin, about, Hey,

what's the process like?

And, um,

how do you guys help me through

this and how to, you know,

what are the right questions asked?

I guess.

Are you with me on this?

Uh, yeah, no, totally.

You know, when a client, uh,

here's what a client should

be asking their contractor.

Um, and, and I would expect to be asked is,

you know,

Or to be told, Dr. Smith, listen,

we've done this hundreds of times.

Not only,

and this is a big point that I

want to press upon is, you know,

a lot of contractors are

going to tell you there's

three things in the industry you can have,

but you can only get two of the three.

It's price, it's schedule, it's quality.

Pick two of the three.

With Big Sky and with your contractor,

you should actually be

getting all three but a fourth.

You should get the competitive pricing.

You should get the quality work.

You should get within

schedule and you should get

the experience.

That is one of the biggest

parts of the design build

is the experience for the client.

They should not be stressing

out on a day-to-day basis

while seeing patients.

How am I going to get this built?

How am I going to get it paid?

How am I going to get it done?

They need a team like Next

Level and Big Sky that is

working behind the scenes,

getting this done for them.

and letting them enjoy this

experience as much or

little as they want to.

So a couple questions should be, listen,

are you coordinating everything for me?

absolutely the contractor

hey are you coordinating

this yeah exactly uh you

know how much engagement uh

do you need of me during

this process throughout do

you have all the resources

necessary to make this

happen a lot of contractors

don't know the next levels

they don't know the uh it

uh and tech reps they don't

know the best equipment

reps out there they don't

know the best designers

there's designers out there

giving startups a fifty

thousand dollar proposal

and they're thinking that's

the norm it's not the norm

that's not making sure that

your general contractor has

the resources to design

build your project yeah um

because design build might

not be that big sky is

handling all of that stuff

to get you from correct

floor plan to permitting

but they're going to

partner with folks to make

it happen is what you're

saying exactly they'll

either have it in-house or

not and that's okay

Exactly.

Yes.

Okay.

That's great.

All right.

That's awesome.

The last question that a

client and most critical question is,

how are you going to hit my budget?

Yes.

Let me show you.

Yes.

That's a critical one.

Yeah.

I often find to put an end

cap on the question is timelines.

Did sometimes I get

contractors on my projects

and the projects just keep

going and going and going

and they give me a date.

I even send you texts all the time.

I'm like, Hey, when is the ETA to open?

Like I'm always asking like,

what's the opening?

Because a startup and,

and established practices too,

they really need to know

that date because then

that's when the marketing launches,

they need to hire their team.

All of this expensive stuff

needs to get deployed.

Right.

And if you're not open and

we got to push everything back a week,

that's a whole week of payroll, right?

that I didn't want to have

so so having your

contractor dialed on

timelines um is so

important and give us some

um I always heard debunk it

or agree with it that on

average by the time drywall

gets completed how far out

are you from opening day typically

From opening day?

Well,

we're about six weeks from finishing

getting final occupancy and

we're about eight weeks

from seeing patients.

Okay.

Six to eight weeks.

I've always said six.

Okay.

Perfect.

Yeah.

And I liked your response

for the one that we're

building together right now and rent.

And Mike asked me, Hey, what's,

what's our ETA on, on opening day?

And I gave him the date and

he thought I was full of shit.

He was like, no way.

It's going to take you way

longer than that.

I was like, no, we're halfway there.

You guys are, you guys are fast.

And that matters.

Another question is, is on average,

great question to ask your

contractor on average, how,

how quickly could you build

out this office?

You know, um,

On average, your typical startup,

we will be ready for

equipment after twelve weeks.

We say fourteen weeks until

you're ready to see your first patient.

Twelve to build, two to equip, stock,

supply,

and start seeing your first patient.

I'll ask that question the

rest of this week.

So your answer on record is

how many weeks from start to finish?

If you had permit in hand.

Fourteen weeks.

Fourteen weeks is Dustin

Long and Big Sky's answer.

I like it.

We'll ask that question the whole week.

My portion, twelve.

A lot of contractors won't give you

the added time at the very

end to move and equip.

Got it.

Yes.

Well then let's get, let's put the,

let's land this bird.

It's been a great conversation.

It's exactly what I wanted

to get out of it.

The last question I'll say is, is why my,

why in,

so you're in Texas and you're also

in Seattle and Puget Sound.

when when folks are

listening to podcasts just

like this or online

trolling and sleuthing all

over the internet and they

see construction costs per

square foot yes I work with

a contractor in florida

it's the same contractor

and he services

jacksonville and he

services um tampa those are

pretty far away from each other

He quotes a cost per square foot for Tampa,

and then he quotes a

dramatically different cost

per square foot in Jacksonville.

I would argue that Texas and

Seattle are two different

markets as well.

I'm not asking you to tell

me what those costs are.

What I'm asking you is why

is it so different across the country?

Do you know the answer to that?

You know,

I've actually had recent

conversations on this

because you're right.

Texas is damn near half the

cost per square foot.

It's wild.

I know it is.

I wasn't going to say it on air,

but same metal studs.

It's the same drywall builder,

same builder, same probability model.

What is it?

Labor?

It's labor, right?

A lot of, a lot of it is labor.

Yeah.

Yeah.

The, the,

The unions a long,

long time ago set a baseline,

and it continues to rise.

The cost of living in the

Pacific Northwest,

we're so constrained space-wise.

Land values are just so much

more expensive.

What about material in a

world where Donald Trump

gets into office?

And actually,

I'm not even going to say Donald Trump.

Biden put a stamp timestamp.

You know,

Biden had some crazy inflation in

his term.

Trump's seeing some with the tariffs.

I don't care about the politics.

I'm just saying we have seen

a crazy amount of fluctuation.

as it relates to tariff

stuff tax stuff in just

just inflation loaf loaf of

bread eggs is that an issue

with construction uh

differences between seattle

and texas absolutely yeah

yeah think about the

warehouse storage rental

fees in seattle compared to

somewhere here in texas

Okay.

But the materials themselves,

like wood and steel for the

framing and just material.

Same material, but you don't know.

It's absolutely more expensive.

Yeah.

In different markets, in different markets,

potentially twenty five to

thirty percent different.

Is it an access or a lack of

access to materials in

different parts of the country?

Think about all the ports we

have in Seattle.

There's no ports in Texas.

I know that I'm just trying

to figure it out,

like why a metal stud would

cost double here in the

northwest than it would in Texas.

And it has nothing to do with labor.

Other than, well,

it kind of does because the

labors of the steel stud.

So, yeah.

I tell you what, when you figure that out,

let's strategize because

there's got to be some

leverage we can take

advantage to build our businesses.

But for the time being,

I don't know what the answer is.

No, no.

I think that's I think

that's really good because

these are the questions

that my clients ask and

it's just sometimes it's

just a great mystery and

they think you mr

contractor are the guy

that's screwing them over

like why is dustin two

fifty or whatever plus in

the northwest and he's one

fifty plus in texas he must

be trying to screw me here

in seattle and that's not

the answer that's not like

an electrician here in

texas journeyman

electrician fifty five to

sixty five an hour seattle

One hundred and thirty to

one hundred and fifty an hour.

There it is.

Same guy, same skill set,

same certification.

Yeah.

Different locations.

Wild.

Unreal.

Well, with that being said,

I think we debunked and had

a fantastic conversation today.

I think our clients and

prospective clients and

folks looking to do startups,

they're going to get a lot

of information out of this episode.

That's what Shark Week's all about.

We're going to get more

information this whole week.

All construction.

Great contractors,

just like Dustin Long and Big Sky.

I thank you, my friend,

for being part of the program.

Dude,

it's been how many years you've been

trying to get on this podcast?

Years, right?

Years.

I don't know why it took so long,

but you are one of my

favorites and I appreciate

you being on the show, buddy.

Absolutely, Mark.

I appreciate you and all the

listeners here that are

listening now and gonna listen.

If you need to get a hold of Dustin,

I want to ask him some questions.

Links below, contact information below.

If you're in the Northwest

or if you're in Texas,

you definitely need to

consider him to build your project.

Absolutely.

Call my cell, text me.

I work a twenty, twenty hours a day,

seven days a week.

Let's go.

This is true.

With that being said, thank you, sir,

for your time.

Appreciate it.

See ya.

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