Dental Unscripted | Getting into Ownership and Practice Management Insights

Welcome to Dental Unscripted.

Where Mike Dinsio and Paula

Quinn break down the

practice ownership journey,

one episode at a time.

Starting up, buying,

and running a successful dental practice.

All right, all right, guys.

Welcome back to another

great episode of Dental Unscripted.

We are in the middle of Shark Week.

It is here again, back again,

the third year in a row.

We may have missed last year.

I don't know.

It was a crazy year,

but we did Kids Week last year.

So yeah, this is the third Shark Week,

and I'm super pumped

because this whole week has been epic.

uh knowledgeable amazing

general contractors that

specialize in dental and

boy do they know a lot more

than I do about the topic

and I'm excited because

we're getting an

opportunity to bring steve

anderson back on the

program this is his second

I will say his second time

being on the program

And Steve Anderson is with Denco.

You might know him from his

book where we'll put a plug

and a link down below.

If you want to pick up his book,

it's an excellent book.

Steve, welcome back to the program,

my friend.

How you doing, buddy?

Good.

Thank you so much for having me.

Yeah, absolutely.

I threw Steven a curveball.

This was actually scheduled

four hours from now,

but Steve was able to jump on.

So he just he's just ready

to go at any moment of time,

which which is something that I love.

Steve,

tell me a little bit about Danko and

you and your philosophy,

because you and I get into

a lot of conversations.

about the business of

dentistry it you and I end

up talking a lot more about

just hammers and nails you

know we we talk about the

business of dentistry and

being a good leader and how

to do this right but like

tell tell us a little bit

about steve and and denko

what you guys are all about

over there in the in

arizona that's where steve

is primarily out of I don't

think he's steve do you do

stuff outside of arizona I

don't think so no just arizona yeah

Yeah.

So, so give us your little, uh,

a little plug about, uh, Denco and your,

your company and, and you.

Uh, Steve Anderson, uh,

been doing this just dental since, uh, uh,

uh, and so we're coming up, gosh,

I hate to do the math, but it's,

that's a lot of years, you know, uh,

but we sure have enjoyed it.

We've done, uh,

completed over a thousand

design build offices and,

And the fun thing is, is, uh,

helping people make better choices.

And that's really the

premise of everything we do

is when I first, uh, was looking for,

what do I do better and how

can I be a better resource

at driving work one morning?

And at that point I was doing everything.

And I shortly realized that, uh,

in that short, fifteen minute, uh,

drive that there was a big

need in the dental market and,

It became Denco Dental

Construction and I ended up

getting rid of all the

other clients and really

started focusing and

quickly found that there's

a lot of specialists out

there that sell their Kool-Aid,

but they take the client

and try to put the client

into their Kool-Aid box and

make it work for them

rather than basically

finding out what's

important to the dentist,

what the dentist is about

and who they are and how unique they are.

and making their experience

and making everything about them instead.

And that's kind of where I took off.

Yeah.

And so, Steve,

because you have so many

years of doing this,

how have things changed?

I'm just curious.

I haven't asked anybody else

this question this week.

How have things changed over this?

We were kind of just talking

about how the world has totally changed.

I mean,

I can't even imagine how your world

has changed over the, again,

can't do the math.

Well, you know, well,

first we're talking about, uh, you know,

the Walmart mentality and then, you know,

everyone wants a cheaper,

and then we're talking about the Amazon,

uh, vibe where you want it faster.

And then we're talking about COVID and how,

uh,

things Dennis for a short time stuck

their head in the sand and, uh,

didn't want to even try anything.

And when instead they should

have been invested in themselves and

now we have a new market,

the new market is the

operatories look different,

and the hallways look different.

And the how people are greeted it,

it was interesting.

And when COVID happened, all of a sudden,

Dennis started realizing I

don't need a waiting room that big,

because also,

they had to get real creative.

And then I still had to do

better scheduling.

I couldn't agree more.

It's one of the very first

things that me as a

consultant looks at is the

front office and the waiting room.

Nobody's waiting anymore.

If people are waiting,

what are you doing in the

back keeping people waiting?

Unless you're a Medicaid

office that has a whole

family sitting out in the front.

It's a huge waiting room.

You're exactly right.

Well, it was interesting.

We had an office and we were

just finishing it right before COVID.

And they went on and just knocked it dead.

But the biggest thing she

said when I went and did a

one-year review, she says,

I wish I would have done

another operatory if I

didn't have this damn big

waiting room and I could

have done more production.

And it was just,

great mindset for me.

But also, you know, it's interesting,

over the years,

I've seen where the

operatories went from two

sinks in every operatory

down to one to a T wall to

now that's just a sink out

in the hallway and no sinks

in the operatories.

And

no cabinets on the side of

the operatories as the

common denominator no

overhead ceiling post

lights or track lights and

I know their loops I mean

it's it's changed

dramatically even the

x-rays you know the x-rays

on the wall I love I love

this so so guys like as you

can tell uh steve gets

really into the design

piece and this is exactly

where I wanted to take this

episode because

We've had this whole

discussion about this whole

week about design build

versus bid and all the things.

And the overwhelming way of doing it today,

as I interview the top

contractors in the country,

is a design build slash

design assist where you, the contractor,

has either in-house or

partnering up with a designer outhouse.

And you guys collaborate and

make decisions.

make a deal happen make a

budget happen make get

creative with budgets and

all the things and um

anyways one of the best

things about steve and

denko construction is their

ability to really dig in

and start thinking about

workflow and the design

element uh I had steve

actually on one of my

clients not too long ago

and he was giving more

feedback than the architect was

And I'm like, dude,

the roles are kind of reversed here.

So Steve,

let's get into some of the design

and how you collaborate and

how you get a doctor from, oh,

here's a shell or a cold shell,

warm shell.

How do we go from that to submit plans?

And what's your part in it as a GC?

What's your part in that process?

That's the question.

Yeah.

I find what works best for

myself and our clients is

to get involved early and a

lot of times even before

the architect gets involved.

And the reason being is

asking those questions that

usually don't get asked.

It's the old adage of you

don't know what you don't know.

And a lot of dentists don't

know what to say or what to do.

And a lot of times I've seen

plans developed literally

by they had the square footage.

So they just draw something.

And then the dentist doesn't

have a clue what they're

looking at and they're going, well,

that's the architect.

So he knows what he's doing

and they sign off, go to work.

And I I've literally had

that happen a number of years ago.

One that really sticks in my

mind was a client, uh, over in Mesa.

And he had a dentist that

was going to be bigger than

him coming in partnership with him.

And he had,

he was going to build out six more ops,

but he goes, here's my plans.

They're permitted.

Let's go to work.

And I said, I said, I said, timeout.

I said, let's talk about who you are.

What's your agenda.

What's what's going on.

What's driving this need for expansion.

And then can I look at your office?

And when I looked at his office, came back,

sat down and I go,

you probably hate your operatories.

And his mouth dropped and he says, well,

how do you know?

He says, well,

it's so tight with the headwall.

You got lots of length, but you have your,

your utilities were set in such a way.

And I remember this from ten years prior,

you hired this professional.

And he got less than two

feet at the head wall

between the head of the,

it was like eight inches.

And I said,

you always have to turn your chairs.

Don't you?

And he says, I hate it.

And I said,

rolled out the plants and six more ops,

exactly the same.

Oh my gosh.

And I, and I, and I said, you know,

that you could fix this

real easily and says, huh?

That's possible.

But again, nobody asked,

asked the question,

asked the question and,

It was head over a six foot

hallway outside his existing operatories.

We moved it back a foot and

we didn't even have to bust

the floor to change the plumbing.

And he just he was ecstatic.

Well, I think I think that's really good,

Steve,

because like doctors don't know

what's possible.

I'm always talking about my clients.

They've never done it before.

They trust the professionals

to take them on this journey.

I'm going to go unscripted

here for a second.

I feel like there's less trust

in the world today with my podcast,

this one, with books like yours.

There's a lot of information out there,

Facebook groups.

People are getting a lot of information,

dentists that are listening right now,

driving to work.

You guys have a ton of

information and then you digest it

And then you kind of go

through this process and

there's less trust with the team,

including me and Steve and

the rest of the dental world.

And that's where mistakes happen,

in my opinion.

And we need to get back to a

world where our clients trust us again.

Well, I wholeheartedly agree.

But also...

Dentists,

everyone can truly sense if you

really care and if you're

really doing your best, you know,

you know, you're, most people are,

can be figured out and you

can only lie and you can

only do things for

different reasons that people won't,

you know,

they'll figure it out eventually.

Yeah.

A hundred percent.

But the, but the big issue is, is,

you know, I tell clients,

are they about helping you

and making you better?

Or are they about your wallet?

And, you know,

that's the one thing I've

always appreciated about you, Mike,

is you always lay it out

there and you give a great

price for what you do.

It's incredible.

But on top of that, you care.

And I mean, I know, I mean,

I was just listening to a

podcast of office we did

together a few years, about a year ago,

and it was so fun to listen

to the clients and the

response and how much they

enjoyed the process.

And there's a key is,

are you enjoying the process?

Oh, my gosh.

Yeah.

Well said.

I mean,

there's a lot to a construction

process between permitting

and equipment selection and building.

And there's just so much.

And it's very stressful to do a startup.

And do you enjoy it?

I love that.

Well, you know, when COVID happened and,

you know, I had finished my

first big book the you know

I did the blueprints for

success and then I and then

people said well you need

to write all the stuff you

lecture about and I said oh

I don't want to do this

more writing more writing

but I finished it was three

hundred and twenty some

pages and and I finished it

and then covet happened and

I barely finished it and I'm going damn

And I ended up rewriting it

and added a hundred pages

to it and made five books out of it.

But what was interesting is

it was even a learning curve for me,

because as I was going through that,

I'm going, I missed out.

I forgot the first chapter

and I had to rewrite and

add a first chapter.

And the biggest thing,

as I look back at all the clients,

the thing that they forget about,

and it would save them so much time,

money and effort and focus

and everything.

is just realize who they are

and then hold fast to it

because so many people have

these little sales gimmicks

that they sell them and

then they go off in these

tangents and then they you

have to full ring and come

back and they waste so much

time money and effort and

instead if they fully truly

understand who they are and

what they're about what's

important to them it's

going to save them time money and effort

Yeah, no, totally.

I agree.

One of the interviews I just

had with Chad Hill,

Hill Construction in Colorado,

and he said,

you got to find someone that

says no to you.

Yeah.

He was talking about like doctors are like,

hey,

I'm going to we need to build out all

the ops right out of the gate.

And Chad was and this is

what you were saying, too,

is you got to look at you

got to we got to look out

for our clients because you can you can.

you can tell when someone's

trying to sell you.

Right.

And so and his whole thing was, hey, no,

it doesn't make sense to do

those ops yet.

We'd love to build it out,

but you're not even close to that.

You got to find people that can tell,

you know,

and I've lost opportunities as a

consultant by telling

someone on a consult,

someone calls me and I'm like,

I don't love that strategy.

And here's why.

I'll help you do anything you want,

but here's the challenge.

And guess what?

They didn't hire me.

And hey.

That's okay.

I think professionals need

to say no more and we got to care more.

And I think you're right.

Okay.

So this idea from plans to permits,

you really embrace that process, Steve?

You help that part?

And I'll say this, sorry to interrupt, but

mechanicals engineering

plumbing you know the

plumbing electric uh

electrical hvac those are

the most expensive things

of a project that you touch

right yeah and that's that

kind of that first set and

I've seen over the years

now so many people over

engineer the crap out of things

I've just seen it.

And I just,

the importance of a contractor

that knows what they're

doing and how to like do it

the right way before it

gets into the plans to me is invaluable.

An architect could

over-engineer the crap out of it.

So how do you go about that process,

Steve?

Like how do you, yeah.

Well,

first I asked permission to use an

architect that I have found

that will listen.

He doesn't have an ego, right?

one that will actually listen.

And then also when we're

part of a meeting and we're

doing the design on the

floor plan and tweaking it

and making it more about

the dentist and asking them some,

you know,

giving them feedback of you

know maybe eighty percent

of the dentist will do this

or twenty percent of this

and they say I want to do

this and say well you're

one in fifty that'll do

that but you know uh is it

worth the risk and will you

really have value in it and

simple little things like

having a shower you know

but you know there's all

these little things that come up and so

What we do is we design it,

we get the floor plan.

And then once that's signed off,

we do the power and ceiling

plan and we work hand in

hand with the client and the architect.

And then that gets created.

It goes off to engineering

at the same time.

What we do is we do the

material finishes with them.

And then when.

If something changes,

I get it to the architect

because once in a while,

as they go through and we

start talking about cabinetry and they go,

Whoa, I don't want this here.

I need that there.

And,

and sometimes we may need to make a

few tweaks on something

that's already been

approved and get the plans modified,

adjusted.

They come to me.

We review them before it

goes over to the city and at the city,

once it's permitted,

we take all the final, uh,

material finishes,

all the cabinet drawings.

and everything,

and I apply them to the cabinet drawings,

to the finished permitted drawings.

I'm sorry.

And the reason I do that is

there's one place.

I want the guys in the field

to know that there's one

place to go for everything.

They're not searching a

bunch of folders and

everything's right there.

And whether we do it

digitally and pull it up on

an iPad or a tablet,

or whether it's the hard plans, but

And we call those yellow

plans just for nothing else.

We literally make the first page yellow.

And the reason for that is, Hey,

I want to know when I show

up on a job that the right

set of plans are there.

And, but by doing that,

I've found that several

things happen is one is

usually even though the

client has signed off in

the plans and signing off

on the floor plan, ceiling power plans,

and,

uh by the time it gets to

the permit there's always

something that changes yeah

all of a sudden all of a

sudden they've gone to adec

and they came back and go

you know I really like that

headball system or or they

come back and say you know

what I really do want those

overhead lights you know

and I took them out or

whatever it might be but

you know then there's an

opportunity to add all

those things all those

notes and then we go to work

I love that.

Yeah.

So, so, so, so folks, as you can hear,

you know, that,

that process to get you

from floor plan to

permitting the contractor,

the equipment reps are very,

very important to that process.

I, I, I want to pull back.

There's an element to this

that we have to touch today

and it's this design assist idea,

this design build idea,

not doing a hard bit.

And in that,

In that there's a speed

element that needs to be

discussed because... Please.

In a world where landlords

are not giving enough free rent... Yes.

arguably not enough ti

dollars with the rise of

the cost of labor and

everything but that's a

whole nother topic for the

real estate guys to answer

let's see let's just talk

about well let me give you

an example let me give you

an example right now hold

on let me let me frame it

up for the for the folks

that don't even know what

we're talking about right now so

So landlords will give free

rent a period of time to build your space,

to do all the due diligence,

to submit the plans, to build it out.

Steve's part of that process.

And if there's not enough time,

let's just say they give you five,

six months.

That's oftentimes not enough

time to get from concept to

permitting to finish construction.

And so if you're going to do a hard bit,

actually, Steve, explain that now.

How does the design work?

bid or sorry, design build,

design build process that

you guys do that pretty

much everybody that we've

talked to this week does.

Explain how much faster it

is to get from concept to

grand opening when you have

this idea of design build.

The largest variable is part

of the country and city

municipality requirements on

And the average in the valley here,

and we have twenty three municipalities,

is typically about two

months to get a permit.

And we actually will have a

set of plans to the city in

three to four weeks.

But then we know whether

there's red lines or whatever.

But by the time it's permitted,

you've got three months.

Then then on top of that,

you got construction.

And I learned an important lesson that

I add some time to clients.

So I tell clients five months,

we typically are done in

just over four and a half months, average,

uh, large tenant improvement.

And the tenant improvement

is building out whether

it's a space we have to gut

out or build it out or

whatever it might be, uh,

for a new dental office.

And that includes everything

and having everything in place,

including all the finals.

Yeah,

I made was originally I'd say four

months or four and a half months.

And then the next day they

would schedule patients as a, whoa,

timeout.

You know, we've got to get Mike in there.

We got to get his Paula in there.

We got to do training.

We got to get, you know,

organization and

understanding your process.

So we tell clients five months,

but you add that up.

That's eight months.

So I tell clients budget nine months.

And that's for a good smooth process.

I have a client right now

that has been doing, they started,

I looked at my records and

I met with them in November of last year,

and they ended up hiring a

professional company to

help them navigate the

process and go out to bid and all that.

And we ended up doing the project,

but I just have to bite my

tongue occasionally.

I'm just saying really guys.

And we just,

They started paying rent

last month and we're about

a month into construction.

So they're going to be

paying rent for three,

four months before you're done.

Yes.

Yeah.

And then on top of that,

they got no tenant

improvement dollars because

they negotiated it all themselves.

They didn't hire a broker,

which they could have got for free.

And then on top of that- We

actually talked about that

in the very last episode.

It's like,

if you don't have someone

representing you in real estate,

like just stop what you're doing.

Stop what you're doing and

just get someone to help you.

Where else can you hire the best for free?

I mean, it's really, it's a no brainer.

Yeah, yeah.

And then, you know, there's just-

It's just so much.

So this idea of speed, right?

So you get free rent,

you get dollars that the

landlord contributes,

and it's all about maximizing

what you're getting from the

bank and the landlord.

And Steve figures out your

budget and gets the project

from concept to delivery as

fast as possible.

Because if you are paying

rent while the construction's happening,

it's not the worst thing in the world,

but that's not what we want.

Like my clients in California,

they're at six months for permitting.

So they're paying rent.

They're paying rent.

And the other thing on top of that, Mike,

is to think about is,

it's time is money but

what's so nice is if you

have that conversation with

your general contractor and

your broker and your

equipment guy and you get

everyone and the consultant

you get all the same page

and as they're negotiating

the space they're saying

hey this location

understand it's gonna the

contractor's going this

building versus that one

over there this one is

going to cost you thirty

dollars a square foot more

than this one here this

one's going to cost you an extra month

And there's buildings that

are in high rises or a

multi-level that will cost more.

And there are certain subs

that you have to use,

or maybe this building over here has,

it's a new building,

but there's no demising wall,

no insulation, no mechanical units,

no concrete, and nobody's advised them.

And,

and they're not getting all that

information.

And so the,

if the contractors are able to

advise the broker that's on your,

your team,

He's able to talk about time.

He's able also look at what

kind of conditions are they

going to give you?

Are they going to give you

mechanical units, you know,

or he's able to look out

there and it's an existing

building and find out that

all three of the mechanical

units that you're going to

take over are only twenty

five years old and they're

on their last leg.

And if you know that ahead of time,

the broker can negotiate

that in and save you thousands,

tens of thousands of dollars.

And folks,

what are you hearing this whole week?

Steve, I don't want to hit that too hard.

We've hit that.

Every contractor has hit

what you just said.

On every episode,

it's so important to have

the contractor get in soon

to help you negotiate and

pick the right space.

So important.

And here it is again.

Steve brought it up.

Every great contractor is saying that.

So guys do that.

Ladies do that.

Steve, let's pivot real quick.

When you're hiring a contractor,

let's say I'm a dentist and

I'm interviewing contractors, right?

How do you know you're

working with someone that

knows dental or is

qualified for this project?

For all of the...

Dental projects that are

happening in all of the state of Arizona,

and they're talking to random GCs,

maybe a guy that's done two

dental offices his entire career.

Like, what are some questions that we,

my audience,

can ask them to just make

sure they're hiring the right person?

Do you see where I'm going with this?

I do.

In fact, in my rewrite in the first book,

I have an entire chapter on how to hire.

Okay.

So just go down to the link,

buy the book or get the book and read it.

What are the top three?

The biggest thing I find is, you know,

trust your gut.

You know,

women are better at intuition than men.

They are so much better.

But on top of that,

it's are they a yes man or yes woman?

You know,

are they just telling you what

you want to hear?

When you ask questions,

is it just a one word

answer or is it something

that has some meat and

potatoes behind it?

You know, and as you're talking to them,

you'll quickly find out,

are they about your wallet

or are they about making you better?

And then have them look at

the plans and just say,

what do you think?

And if they haven't talked

to you and asked you any questions,

do they just jump in and

make their assumptions?

Or do they first stop and

ask you some questions?

Because really,

that's really what should

be happening is a seasoned

guy is going to stop and he's going, well,

tell me about yourself.

Do you really want

two sinks in your operatory.

And do you really want this

overhead light?

And do you really need, you know, this,

these rooms are good.

Gosh, they're twelve by sixteen.

You know, what are you doing?

You know, and, you know,

just and then seeing big

rooms and not asking, well,

where's the med gas?

And just things of, you know,

just being able to first,

they should be

understanding who you are

first before they're selling themselves.

And if they're just

Selling themselves,

that's usually a big concern.

Is there a professional lingo?

Well, actually,

I oftentimes see quotes

with very little detail.

How do you feel about that?

Quotes with very little detail.

It scares me.

We spell everything out.

you know, and it,

and it's so important in whatever you do,

whether it's buying a home

or car or whatever,

you got to know what you're getting.

And the big, big thing is,

is I'm actually thrilled

when someone says, well,

what does NIC mean?

Or what does PBO mean?

Because you know, they're reading, reading,

looking.

Yeah.

I've had, I've had dentists, you know,

literally I've been

standing in the same room

with them and they have a

hundred and ten page lease and they,

Oh, great.

Thank you.

And go to the last page,

sign it and hand it back to

the broker and away they go.

And, and they didn't, you know,

I've seen brokers, you know,

that have done some unscrupulous things.

I had one client that found

out five years ago that

they were getting ready to

sell their practice and

found out that the place

they were leasing from,

we get ten percent of the

deal just because it was in their lease.

Oh, wow.

I mean, there's just,

By having those key professionals,

it's so valuable to you.

It is.

It really is.

Okay.

As we're getting to the end

of your guys' ride to work or home,

they say in the podcast world,

if we don't end the program by like,

twenty-five, thirty minutes,

They're they're probably at

home or they've made it to

their destination.

So fun fact,

the average ride home is

twenty five minutes.

So we're at the top of the hour,

I suppose.

My last question for you, Stephen,

it's been it's been great.

I love having you on.

I love your energy.

I love your acumen.

I love the way you approach.

clients and think through a holistically.

That's all really good stuff.

My last question is more of

a leadership question.

It's not related to to to construction.

And I think I think, you know,

as I interview people,

most of us own our company.

I own mine.

You own yours.

It's a grind owning,

and I find that owner

owning a business is no is

very it's more similar than different,

whether it's a dental business,

a dry cleaner, a construction company.

It's very similar.

The grit, the ability to lead teams,

effective communication systems.

There's a lot of stuff

that's similar in the things that we all

struggle with as owners?

Do you have a leadership tip, impartment,

something that you'd love

to share to folks that are

either in ownership or

thinking about ownership?

All these years you've owned your company,

what does it take to be

successful and be in ownership?

Give of your best and don't

expect anything in return.

I would also say the importance of

hiring better than yourself

and surrounding yourself

with those people,

whether it's in house or out of house,

meaning that if you have to

hire those professionals and hire,

I've heard this for years, but hire slow,

fire quick.

That's been a painful one

over the years where I've

made a mistake of trying to

keep someone on and try to make it work.

And, oh, what am I going to do?

without it.

And, you know,

recently we lost someone

that had been with us for twelve,

thirteen years.

And she said, you know,

I just I just decided I

want to change profession.

And she had no plans.

But I'm going, oh, my gosh.

And I said,

something will be there and

something better.

And I set my expectations higher.

And while I got someone that

was probably the the

knowledge and the stuff

that was brought in,

by understanding that there

was more needs than I

really had and looking for opportunities.

Well said.

I think that's really good, Steve,

that all of us owners have

had to go through.

And I personally have gone

through that with employees

and admins and stuff.

And what's amazing is

it usually gets better every time.

And, and, but we,

especially if you get comfortable or,

you know,

like you've been in business

with somebody,

a partner or an employee for two,

three years, you do,

you can't imagine doing

what you do without them.

And then it gets,

it's so much better afterward.

It's amazing how we get into that.

We get into our comfort zone and, you know,

that, that, that is,

That's dangerous.

And that's something that I

continually challenge myself in is,

you know,

what other contractor would

write and rewrite a book?

And I'm going, but it's a passion of mine.

And the issue is,

is challenging myself to

continually be better.

And that's what you have to

do to stay on top of your

game and challenge your team members.

That's a beautiful tip.

Don't be afraid of firing

and hire slowly and work on systems.

And change is good going through growth.

I listened to a thing the other day,

another consultant, actually,

not in the dental world, basically say,

hey, man,

it's awesome when you go through

challenges.

It's awesome because you just...

you just come out so much better.

And,

and if you don't go through any

challenges,

you don't go through anything better.

If a client came to me and said, Mike,

you guys suck.

It would hurt.

I would be devastated.

I would feel horrible.

I, all the things, but man,

we would make it better.

And, and then everything else goes up.

So that's a great leadership tip.

Yeah.

So leave you with one visual.

When I finish up a lot of seminars,

I show a slide.

And it's a picture of these

aspen trees across from our family cabin.

It's been in my wife's

family for like seven years.

And picture this aspen.

And the one thing I found

over the years is these aspen grow tall.

But what's interesting is

the wind makes them strong.

What is wind?

Wind is diversity.

And they found when they did

the biosphere that what

happened when they didn't have wind?

the tree limbs would break

and they'd fall down and

they wouldn't last.

So wind,

our adversity is actually what

makes us strong and last

longer and really persevere.

And then the other thing

about the Aspen trees is as they grow,

they drop their branches.

It's really interesting

because the leaves and

stuff are at the top,

but they drop what they don't need.

They get rid of the stuff they don't need.

They get rid of the clutter.

They get rid of all the stuff.

And the other thing-

other thing that's really

cool about these trees is

when you cut them down they

come back multi-fold and

it's they their their roots

all of a sudden will

produce multi-fold so when

they're going through

severe uh devastation they

come back strong stronger

and bigger and more wow

that's super cool that's

awesome uh I think we

should change our our logo

to an aspen tree I love that

That's great, Steve.

I love that.

That's a fantastic tip and I

think a great place for us

to exit the program.

Steve,

thanks so much for always investing

into the community, this podcast,

your book.

seminars all the things you

do thank you so much for

doing what you do I love it

too we're passionate I I I

hope I'm just as passionate

as you are at your age and

I and um thank you for

Well,

just thanks for investing your time

and giving it to the audience.

I really appreciate it.

And that concludes Shark Week, uh,

two thousand twenty five.

Uh, Steve Anderson with Denko.

We finished with, uh,

one of the best folks again.

I'll remind you, please, please, please.

Review the program.

I always get great feedback.

You guys are calling me every week.

Hundreds of people telling

me every year how awesome the show is.

Yet we only have ten reviews.

Whatever you're listening to, Spotify,

YouTube, Apple Tunes.

I mean, there's a hundred of them.

Just please hit the five-star.

Hell, I'll take a four-star.

I don't care.

I just want a review.

Please give me some reviews.

It helps the program rank higher.

I know there's hundreds of

you guys out there,

so please just give us a review.

So with all that being said, again, Steve,

wealth of knowledge.

All of his stuff is going to

be in the link literally

below in the description, his book.

And thank you again, Steve,

for your time today.

I really appreciate you.

Likewise.

Thank you, Michael.

All right, buddy.

Make it a great day.

We'll talk soon, okay?

Okay.

Take care.

Thank you.

Take care.

Bye-bye.

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