Dental Unscripted | Getting into Ownership and Practice Management Insights

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[Music]
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[Music] Welcome to Dental Unscripted,
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[Music] where Mike Dinsio and Paul Quinn break
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down the practice ownership journey one episode at a time. [Music]
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Starting up, buying and running a successful dental practice.
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[Music]
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Hey, hey guys. Welcome back to another episode of Dental Unscripted. This is Mike Dinsio and Paula Quinn, co-hosting
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the program Dental Unscripted. We're super happy to have you uh on the program. Um we have a great episode
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today. It should be very spirited. Um it's all about HR, common HR questions,
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concerns, things that you all as practice owners or soon to be practice owners are going to deal with. It's one
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of the hardest things that you're you're going to deal with uh as an owner. We deal with it as a company and and as the
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owners, but any owner knows the pain and suffering of managing people.
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It's just the world we live in. So, uh without further ado, Paulo, would you mind um introducing our amazing guest
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today and maybe giving uh the audience a little bit about who the company is?
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Yeah. So, um, this is Jill Hasselman, uh, chief growth officer of HR for
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Health. Um, one of our favorite HR, I think our only HR company.
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We're the only ones who want to do it. Exactly. Exactly. Um, love the name
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Hassle. We were joking about that earlier. Perfect. It's like you made it up for your job. Um, perfect.
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Because it is a hassle, right? Um, Joe, why don't you tell us just a little snippet about HR for Health? You can
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probably say it better than me. I can certainly afterward, you know, uh, let everybody know, our audience know why
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why we reach out to you, why we need your help. Um, but if you can give us a little bit about your company, that
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would be great. Yeah. And I hope nobody turns off the episode because they know it's HR. I
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know people don't love topic. We're gonna make,
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I promise. But um yeah, I mean I joked that we're the only ones who want to do it, but it is true. I know it's people's
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least favorite topic when it comes to running their business, running the dental practice. Um and so our goal is
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really to make HR as easy as possible for somebody who doesn't know how to do
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HR. That's actually our product mission is somebody again who just has no idea
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about HR, doesn't want to know how to do HR that we make it easy for them to do that. And so we were created by an
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employment attorney, Aliyah Ramchian, who I believe has been on this podcast before. And he created HR for Health as
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a preventative solution um to avoid lawsuits from happening and from
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employee to employer. And um that's really our goal is that we don't want to
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have to refer things out to a law firm. If um you know there is an issue, it goes away very quickly. Um, and so we've
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built a platform that is really custom for a dental practice and how they need to run their HR because dental practices
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are unique and um, there really wasn't solutions for the nitty-gritty, the intricacies and the struggles that they
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have. And so everything at our core is how do we protect the doctor owner best
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possible and make sure the employees are getting what they're deserved to get. And um since then we've kind of grown
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the platform into more like performance-based things and and added those things on. We've added payroll in,
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you know, some of the more um like classic HR stuff that you think of. But yeah, our our day in and day out is we
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are only working with the practices that are listening to this podcast. Like that's that's our bread and butter. And
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I've been doing this for almost 12 years. It's been super fun. And I will say though that the the pain points
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throughout these 12 years don't seem to change or evolve that much. They continue to be the same. And so our
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mission is really just to try to get education out there of how do we make it just less of a frustration and
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afterthought. Um because that's where issues come up is when we just sweep them under the rug over and over again.
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It's so true. It's it's so true. I think doctors just don't want to address these things and the problems are the same.
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Um, totally. And when we hire new team members like into HR for health and you know, we're teaching them about dental,
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I always tell them, you know, picture when you walk into your dental office, you don't see the dentist, you know, you
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see their team. And I think it's really symbolic of kind of how the practices are functioning is so many owners feel
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like my team is like running the show here. I feel like I'm kind of held hostage by what they want to do. And so
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it's like how do they like bridge that gap so that they feel like there's a healthy balance between what's good for
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the business, what's good for them, what's protecting them and also kind of keeping the employees happy and wanting to come back to work.
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I think we I think the biggest thing you know and dentists should know well maybe not dentist hygienist for sure
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hygienist um is prevention right no even though yes do we want someone to have a
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cavity so we can fill it of course but really and hygienist our whole goal is
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prevention to prevent you know a dentist is preventing a disease from getting bigger a hygienist is preventing gum de
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gum disease from getting bigger. So our goal would be like what prevent issues,
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right? So I would say, you know, probably ask you Joe, what what do you think I know
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there's lots lots, but why do you think the number one thing is to prevent
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prevent issues from even happening? What is that? Um having things in writing and then
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sticking to what you're saying you're going to do. So, I'll give an example
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like an employee handbook, the most classic thing you think of when it comes to HR. Um, just even that
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one individual piece of HR is like when we do surveys and we're doing research in the marketplace for, you know, what
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our clients need and what the norms are. We've the number one way that somebody
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gets their employee handbook when we do these surveys is from a colleague or another office and then they're to their
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own office. So you're already starting off on the wrong foot because you're you don't know you don't know what is in
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that in the first place. Yeah. You don't even read it, right? And you're you're not an expert to edit it
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and know if it's state specific and all those things. And so um that's already on the wrong foot. And then they don't
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use their handbook. Like that's the purpose of making things non-emotional which is what people get so stressed
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about. And I get like I manage people. I've done our internal HR I mean I've done everything at HR for health from
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order coffee to the office to you know writing employee handbooks to dealing with internal team members to you know
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large partnerships that and so in that I get it it's hard but like the easiest way to make it where it's it's not where
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you're losing sleep every single night and and really having to psych yourself up to have these conversations is
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there's consistency. It doesn't matter if somebody's your favorite employee. I have somebody who has reported to me for
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almost 10 years. He has writeups in HR for health because I have to write him up. He also is super productive, but
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it's just that consistency of you broke the policy and I have to hold you accountable. And so that trickles into
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so many different areas of the business. And I don't think anybody's intentionally doing it. They just don't know what to do when these requests come
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up. And again, I think it ties back into the team tends to run the show a lot. They come in and say, "You have to give
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me this. You have to give me this day off. You have to pay me for this sick time." And they might be right, but some
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cases they aren't. And the doctors are kind of just going with it and it just multiplies into bigger issues.
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Well, we talk about we we just did a a webinar this um I don't even know what day it is.
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Wednesday, t Tuesday? I think it was Tuesday. And it was all about like leadership and
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putting agreements together kind of on the front front end of of what the
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team's going to be, how they're going to show up, you know, how they're going to tr you
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know, behave, so to speak. And and you know, the HR handbook is
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kind of the ultimate agreement in some of this stuff. And the the thing about
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that webinar was like, okay, you could go through the agreements. You could agree to all these things. The team
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agrees, everybody agrees. Everybody signs the HR, right? The hardest part is the accountability
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part of following through with it. And so it's like one step one is like have it.
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Without it, without it, without the agreements, you can't even start with a conversation. But but step one is
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having the agreement. And then the hardest part is just um having those conversations.
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It's like bringing it up right when it happens. I always I always tell docs, don't call it a write up. Call it, hey,
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I'm going to document this, right? We're both going to document and and sign off on it to protect you and me of
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what the chain of events were. So even if it was a fender bender, it's not your fault. You're not in trouble, but we're
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going to document it. You were 20 minutes late, you know. um here were the chain of events, you know, because what happens
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is you don't need it until you need it. And Paul has been late 10 times and like
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you said, she's your favorite. There's always been a great excuse. All of a sudden, you wake up one day and say,
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Paula's been late 10 times, right? Now starting to affect my office. But
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guess what? You never even had the conversation with Paula ever. Yeah. And comfortable, right, Jill? for
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me to now as an owner, boss or manager. Totally. You know, it's like they and sometimes
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they'll even call like I did it nine times. Why on the 10th one are you now mad at me? Like
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and then Paul is also like really I've been late 10. Are you sure? No, it's this like my third time. Right. It's
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like no documentation. Attendance is by far the biggest pain
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point that we see doctors dealing with hands down. And because so much goes
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into when I say attendance, that's tardiness, that's clocking in early, that's unauthorized overtime, that's,
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you know, not taking your meal and run or your meal and rest breaks when you need to. And so, and what happens is,
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again, we'll start working with a client, and I've had so many doctors say this to me of, "Well, my employees won't
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clock in and out." And I'm like, "Do you hear what you just said to what do you mean they won't clock in?" Like, that is
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just a basic function of being an employee. And like we're we have a lot
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of work to do if like the mindset is well my employees won't clock in and out and I'm like and when they work
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unauthorized overtime they feel and I get it like I'm not blaming them. It does really feel like I am helpless in
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this. Like my employees are just ringing me dry. They're running up their time clocks and I'm like write them up for
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that. I guarantee the first time that you do that they're going to go oh wow they're paying attention. Like I can't
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get away with this anymore. And in HR for health, we actually have features that like if somebody is late,
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there's a popup that says you're late. Do you want to give a reason why you're late? And we see the employee behavior
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changing and go. We've actually had feedback from clients of employees being like, "Yeah, I was going to go get
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coffee, but I didn't because I didn't want to get the popup." And so it's but also it's the earlier you do that. And I
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know we were talking before we started on this, like I love working with an acquisition or a startup because you're
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starting from like a clean slate. You get to put that that consistency and that feedback and that transparency and
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that open communication right from the beginning. And even if you're not doing it and you know you've been in practice
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for a while, now is still the time to start doing it. But it is the sooner you do it, the much easier it is. And and
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again, consistency. It just has to be normal. They can't think it's like flavor of the week and you're going to get over it and then they can go back to
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their old, right? It's mom and dad. Well, who can we get away with? You know, it's funny that you said that, Joe, because the
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startups fight me the most. Um, they'll say, "Well, there's just two of, you
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know, two employees. Everything's great. We all talk, we all get along, and I'm like, until we don't My mom I I say this
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to every every dental practice that I help, my mom's favorite saying is I like
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to keep honest people honest." It's like, don't leave your keys in the car. Don't leave your door unlocked. Don't go
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without stating how you want the phone answered. Don't go without writing it up
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the first time they're tardy. Um, documenting it, whatever, because it's just like I said last a minute ago, all
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of a sudden it's out of control, right? You don't want to stay at two employees forever, right? Like you're
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going to grow and well and even those employees life changes, right? It's not always, you
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know, it's it's it's the worst when you have to have those difficult
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conversations. And I love, we were talking about prevention earlier, and we can go back to that. You know, what's
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the number one prevention thing? We were talking prevention is everything because
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now you don't have to talk about it. Yeah. And you know, and you don't have to be a jerk either. Like like I think I think
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everybody like attaches Well, you do though, Michael. That's the thing is if you never laid the
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groundwork, it feels like a jerk. That's why you have to I guess that's what I mean is like if if
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you could We're talking about prevention right now, like it's all about preventing problems, right? So
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like you said handbook is one of those things, right? So, like it's like the more like you're saying, Paul, the more
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ri the more rigid you are on the front end, quote unquote, the the you don't
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have to be a jerk about anything. It's just like, "Hey guys, we agreed to this. Um, the popup and they decide not to go get
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coffee." Exactly. Exa Exactly. Forget it. Forget it. I'm gonna stay.
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Okay. So Joe, so so if you if if not if the number one thing is um the handbook,
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what's the number two thing? What's the next what's the next thing is is walking the walk of what you have
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written. So of this like employee handbook again especially
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depending on where you get them from um if it's not from HR for health or like
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reputable source you might be starting off on the wrong foot but let's say your handbook is great most handbooks say
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things like we will do performance reviews 30 60 90 and one year the
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employees are reading that and they're going okay I'm going to have a review at my anniversary their anniversary comes,
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nobody says anything about their anniversary, no performance review happens, you've immediately just broken
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trust and put something in writing that you say you're going to do that you're not going to do.
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Um, and so I tell people like if you don't plan to do performance reviews, which I don't agree with, but if you're
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not going to do them, don't have it in your handbook that you say you're going to do them. like it has it goes hand in
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hand. Another thing, one of the most common things we see when we start working with a client is
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they have when it comes to time off, sick time, vacation, PTO, holidays,
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whatever it is, they have something in writing in their handbook and they're doing something completely different
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because at at HR for Health, we do their handbook for them and then we set up in the system exactly what their handbook
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says. And what we find is clients will call us and they go, "My PTO is wrong in HR for health." And we're like, "Well,
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this is what it says in your handbook." Oh, I actually don't do it that way. And we're like, "Okay, so we need to update
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your handbook." And so, again, these are things that like break trust almost immediately. And we get asked by doctors
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all the time like, "What do employees want? What do they, you know, please help me? I'm trying to retain them." I'm like, "They want to be paid correctly.
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They want to know what to expect. They want to be able to see their time off. They want to be able to know how far in
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advance they're supposed to request it so that there's like not that friction. And the final one on this too is
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the new, you know, I'm a millennial. I used to never say that because, you know, like when I would speak and stuff,
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people like throw tomatoes at you, but now everybody hates to be Michael
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Millennial all the time. He goes, I'm not a millennial now. But it's okay. The heat's off of us
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because now everybody hates the Jenzers, right? Like they are the whole other thing. So I am like loud and proud that
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I'm a millennial now. You're just like I'm not a gypsy. Exactly. I'm not a judy. And so but what
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they expect I mean they are so used to technology. They are so used to as consumers and how they live out in the
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world. Like they can see all of us we can see that our Amazon packages five stops away and we have all that
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transparency and then they come into their place of work at a dental office and everything's on paper. Nothing's
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consistent. nothing's transparent and it's this it's just not a good experience for them. Like they're
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expecting more. No matter what size your practice is, no matter if it's two employees, they want things electronic.
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They want things at their fingertips and they want to know what to expect. And so I think that's a big thing that like the
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practices also now need to evolve to. Um even if you're not worried about getting sued, if you're worried about your
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employees quitting, like you should have an HR system in place. Can you can you just update? Well,
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within reason, I'm sure this might be a loaded question. I've had docs ask. I feel like you just can't amend your
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handbook whenever you want it. Like, if you've told them, if you hire them with
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a week or two weeks vacation, you can't just be like, "Oh, sorry. We're taking you down to one." Can you? Yeah, you
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could. I mean, that you can you might depending on where you're located,
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right? So, like in California, vacation time is considered earned wages, right? So, you can't use it or lose it. You
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can't take those hours away. Um, but we deal with that a lot like with acquisition clients because they might
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be buying a practice where people have like five weeks of vacation, office manager's been there for 25 years like
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at a very high salary rate and by working with you guys or you know whoever get this awareness of wow this
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is actually not really feasible for you and so we do have to work to sometimes change those policies and that's again
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acquisition but what if like I've just owned a practice for 15 years and I'm like, "Yeah, everyone's we're not doing
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this anymore. I'm taking away some paid holidays or Yeah, just do that
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from Yes. like black and white. Yes, you can change your policies at any time assuming you have a good handbook that
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says you're allowed to do that. Um, you need a statement in there that this can be changed at any time." And it
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should be. That's the thing is so many times like a somebody will work on a handbook for like six months, get it all
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done, and then five years go by and they've never looked at it again. Like it should be reviewed at least once a
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year for law changes, but also again, is my practice still operating the way I'm saying it is on paper and if it's not,
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then it should be amended. in the situation of like changing vacation and stuff, I would say like we would have
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our HR adviserss work with them on like maybe some people are grandfathered into something other maybe it's just for new
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employees moving forward or it's certain positions that are creating like a bigger headache. Maybe all hygiene is
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part-time and they're all they're getting vacation that's the same as everyone who's full-time. So there's
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different ways that we can slice it and approach it, but overall speaking, yes, they can change their policies as long
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as it's not like things like you can't just all of a sudden be like, I don't pay overtime, so I'm not going to have
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an overtime policy. It's like, well, you we can't change that. Like that's just by law. But the things that they don't
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have to be doing, yeah, they can change it. All right. Nice. I mean that I mean I mean that makes sense owning a business, but sometimes
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sometimes uh the laws don't make sense for business owners. So like
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they do not and and I think what he's not talking about California's laws. Yeah. I don't
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dude it's it's there's a lot of states that are keeping us like up at night of all the stuff we have to deal with. But
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I think what people also don't understand when we say like laws change all the time. They do. And a lot of it is because laws
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are passed. They aren't thought all the way through and then they go in and they amend them.
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They clarify them. there's case law that comes out that you know finds loopholes and so that's why it is always evolving
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because like again our sick leave laws if we're using California or even New York like those have been amended
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multiple times because they're passed and then they realize like oh this doesn't fit in for these certain
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businesses or you know this actually isn't better for the employee and so that's our job is to for our clients is
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to always keep up on that stuff and make sure they're in line but um yeah I mean it's we're in all 50 states It it keeps
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us on our toes for sure. I bet. Yeah. Go ahead, Paul. No, no, no. Go
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ahead, Paula. I was going to just go with documentation really quickly. Obviously with HR for health, it it streams all.
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It's super easy. You, you know, like you said, it pops up if you're late, you know, things like that.
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But for someone that maybe isn't there yet, what do you tell them to document like
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or how thorough maybe is the question? Does it need to be? Does it need to have my signature and their signature? Is it
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is it just is if the doctor just documents it and and tucks it away, is
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that good enough? Do I have to bring it to the attention of the employee, have the conversation and both initial Can
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you speak on it? Definitely depends on the situation. So the advice I always give
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he's doing the HR answer. Well, it is tiered like it really does
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depend. So like first of all the advice I always give is and like when I do like workshops that are hands-on trying to
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help owners really form an ideal HR world for themselves. I always give them
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the challenge of think about those things that annoy you every day. Like is it cell phone use? Is it you're like why
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is she on her cell phone again? Or is it tardiness? Like what are those little things that are like just you can't put
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your finger on it but it's really putting you in a bad mood. It's reflecting on those things and then again going back and looking at what do
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I have in writing? I know that it might sound crazy of like and I get people say this they're like Jill they know they
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can't be late and I'm like okay but have you defined what late is? Like what does your policy say about it? Is it five
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minutes after their start time? Is it if they don't clock in right on the dot? like and communicate that in your
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onboarding process of what your like deal breakers are of like hey I'm just
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letting you know cell phones really bother me like and you'll see our policy. So it's it's like setting them
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up for success so that they know and they're not guessing and then and then you always have to look at did I give
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that them that expectation in writing? If I didn't maybe I need to amend that a
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little bit and beef it up. And then depending on the situation, what for I'm
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going to say like not crazy things, right? Like if somebody comes into the office drunk, that's a whole different thing. Like we hear everything, right?
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Like people are drug dealers outside the office. Like we our HR team hears a lot of stuff. So I'm not talking about that.
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So do but just consistent like daily things that you're trying to improve behavior
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is the first thing is a just a check-in conversation. I recommend that you're
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checking in with the team at least every other week anyway of just like quick little, hey, this is what's been going
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on. This is what you're doing well. By the way, I noticed you were late three
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times in the last couple weeks. We I really we really have to turn that around. And then you just make that note
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for yourself. That doesn't need to be something the employee sees you and you're saying, I had this conversation. Similar to how you're documenting your
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charts, you want to have dates, you know, you don't want to have any lines skipped. It's the same thing like you and do it in real time. like we forget
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about that of it's like well I'll get to it later. You never get to it. So that's
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the first thing. And then if the behavior continues to happen, you have a
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more formal conversation where you're kind of writing up like what happened and you're reviewing that with the
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employee, but they don't necessarily need to sign it, but you're being a little bit more transparent of what you have in writing. And then if it
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continues to happen, it should be a signed thing by the employee. Again, date and time stamp. And Paula, you said
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something about like a fender vendor and kind of saying like this is what happened. We do get asked like, well,
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what if an employee refuses to sign something? It's the same thing as like when you get a speeding ticket. You're
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not saying I'm signing this because I agree I was speeding. You're just saying I've read it. I understand it. And then,
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you know, maybe I'll go fight it later. And we have had situations where employees still refuse to sign stuff and
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then you give them a piece of paper that says they refused to sign something and they sign that. So there's there's no
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way around it. Yeah. Yeah. All right. That's good.
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Should never be a surprise, though. Like again, in our system, we have ways that like writeups can be private and write
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ups can be really like out there and force them to sign it. And we have clients that call
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about something that's really small and they're like, I want it to be a formal violation and them to sign it. And we're like, that's a little aggressive. Let's
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not do that one. Or the flip side that says that I'm shocked.
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I know you're really type A. This person like really type A and um because
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they've been burned before by employ can you deliver it to them because I'm not comfortable.
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What we because when a client calls our HR team and says hey I want to fire somebody. The first place that our team
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goes and looks is in the platform in the software to say okay what does the documentation look like? and we'll see
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the employee doesn't have any of the documentation. I actually want to talk about that. Okay, because that's the that's a
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perfect segue to the um to the next the next topic that I wanted to cover and that is risk risk mitigation.
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You know, how do we how do we mitigate the risk of being sued or blowback?
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Yeah. From crazy employees that just want to the last 27 minutes
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cause problem. Yeah. Exactly. So, so, so documentation like Paula, me, you, Jill,
27:35
we we all know this, but can you say it in your way? Because, yeah, like you just said, there's a problem,
27:42
it needs to be addressed, but then you go back and you see nothing. Um, what's documentation mean? What
27:48
should they do? I think the easiest way to think about why documentation is your best friend is
27:55
so when lawsuits happen, when an employee makes a complaint, they're not
28:00
typically making a complaint for the small tickyty tacky stuff, which is probably why you actually parted ways
28:07
with them. They are finding a lawyer that's going, "Oh my god, yeah, we have a wrongful termination suit. We have a
28:13
discrimination lawsuit." It's these big ticket items that aren't again probably related to
28:20
why you terminated, but what it does is put you in a situation as the owner
28:26
where you essentially have to produce documentation to show why that's not the case. So if you don't have any
28:32
documentation about they you this many times or these are all the conversations I had with them like clear
28:39
outlines of showing no I did not fire them for insert the blank there which is
28:44
whatever you know big ticket item it is then you're already on the back foot and
28:49
that's where it's really difficult that's where lawyer fees skyrocket because you're trying to like build this
28:54
case whereas if you have that so clearly if it's just like no I've had this
28:59
conversation with them many times times they no called no showed they were late
29:05
they again whatever it is that they did you're in a way better position to go
29:11
nope actually this is why I parted ways with no this is just like a do you know we we started out with prevention and now
29:16
we're sitting here documentation this is exactly what happens to a dentist I say if it's not written it didn't happen
29:23
what happens is usually when someone sues a dentist or takes them to the board it's mostly because they didn't
29:29
feel heard They don't feel like the cost is appropriate. It's it's usually an administrative type thing.
29:36
Totally. And I will say something, this makes people so mad at me, but it's true.
29:44
Don't fight unemployment. That is like the quickest way to make an employee disgruntled, like an ex
29:50
employee. And I know everybody hates that answer because they're like, "Well, it raises my premiums." It does not. It
29:56
doesn't move the needle that much to it's it's such an ego thing on both sides. It's
30:01
like just let them have the unemployment. Like when you're terminating somebody, pay them everything they could possibly be owed.
30:07
Like it is so much they don't withhold a final paycheck because they didn't give keys back. Like
30:13
just these little things that totally to your point, Paul, just throw gas on the fire and then they're like, you know
30:19
what? I deserve so much more than like what I'm getting. And back to those zenials. Back to the
30:24
zenial. No, not for millennials. And millennials would never do that. But no, uses would just go away. We would
30:32
just go find. Wait, you want to fire me? Okay, I'm sorry. I know. Like I deserve nothing.
30:38
Yeah, I've been waiting to leave anyway. It's better this way, you know. So, no, it really is. But you you that you know,
30:45
keep I I don't know if I interrupted you enough, but Dennis should relate to this because it's it's ca cover your ass.
30:53
Document, document, document. It goes the same for your clinical notes. If if a if somebody's upset, if somebody says,
31:00
"I don't like the color," document all of it because if it comes back to bite
31:06
you, you're protected because I can guarantee that patient, that employee
31:12
doesn't have those records. They're not going to remember all the times they were late or left, you know, did
31:20
overtime, worked through lunch, didn't do the proper things. They're not going to have that. So now, if it's you
31:26
against them, you're documented. Theirs is their feeling, their word, their making up stuff. Um,
31:33
so you're going to be, and you know, and people will say to me all the time, "Well, documentation doesn't doesn't
31:39
prevent." No, it doesn't. Anyone can sue you, but your chances of winning or at least not losing are going to be 10
31:47
times greater if you protect yourself from the very Yeah. And if you're having to work with
31:52
a lawyer, again, you have to think like like a lawsuit is draining on the business in so many ways. It affects
31:58
employee morale. It impacts the owner's focus, ability. Of course, you have the
32:04
dollar amount hanging over your head of what you would have to pay, but the legal fees can be really crazy, right? because these parallegals are having to
32:09
dig up all this stuff. And so even having all of that in one place reduces
32:15
that because they they're not having to again like figure out how to position
32:21
this as much when you have this objective documentation. And again, the documentation needs to be objective. If
32:27
the documentation is emotional, it is alluding to things that are discriminatory or, you know, wrongful
32:33
termination stuff, that's not great because you then have that in writing. And so it has to be as objective as
32:39
possible. But when you know Ali has lawsuits that happen at the law firm and he asks these attorneys like, "Okay, why
32:46
are you suing my client?" Like, "What do you have?" They'll be like, "The your client doesn't even have an updated employee
32:52
handbook, the most basic part of HR." So if they don't have that, what else do they not have? Right.
32:57
Right. So, it's it's it just culminates into these really big things where it could start as discrimination, but then
33:03
they start throwing wage an hour in there and there's fines for not giving employees certain documents. Like, it
33:09
just can add up and again, it can be preventable. Yeah. Oh my gosh. This is that's just crazy.
33:14
Well, I mean, look, I'm not I'm not surprised that that we're having this conversation. I mean I mean, Dan there,
33:22
you know, HR, what am I trying to say? We make all of
33:27
our doctors get EPLI now. We're just like get EPLI. That's a great one. Yeah. And and what a
33:32
lot of people don't realize is most EPLI coverage though doesn't cover wage and hour claims. It's kind of like trying to
33:37
get like I'm in California. It's trying to get fire insurance in California right now. Like because wage
33:43
and hour issues are so common that like that stuff's still not covered. And so
33:50
Oh, we're doing the best we can. What else do we have? No, it's great. No, absolutely. You need it. I preach that all day long. You
33:56
should absolutely have EPLI, but be aware of like what's in your policy and don't think like because again, we hear that you're just
34:04
Yeah. And they're like, "I'm good. I can do whatever I want and it's like uh you can't Well, I guess where where I was going
34:10
with that is that Yeah. We went off on a team that the front office has duties, the dental assistants have duties, the
34:15
hygienists have duties, right? Just to do the job. Do the job. Well, y and if and if we're just trying to get
34:21
the our clients, our dentists to get team members to just do their basic
34:27
duties, it's not even HR issues, right? That's hard for them. And so, like
34:34
when we're trying to prevent conflict, that's like a level 10
34:40
conversation. Whereas, like, hey, can you start making some more confirmation calls because we're getting a lot of
34:45
cancellations. They're having a hard time having that conversation, right? Let alone having a conversation about
34:51
you being late and you're not getting PTO and you're you're getting on your cell phone and conflict.
34:57
So, it's like I can see how HR is really difficult for the listeners
35:03
and the the dentist. And all I can all I can tell you folks listening is if you
35:10
are going to be an owner, you got to get you got to get comfortable having
35:17
conversations with your team. Yeah. Whether it's a changing of a job
35:23
description or doing a duty differently or having an HR conversation like right
35:29
this is the X factor literally the X factor of being a good owner and having
35:36
great culture and being fulfilled within ownership. If you can't do this
35:43
stay in H Heartland and be an associate. I'm sorry. Yeah. And I think so I do view HR as a
35:51
strategy like and even like some personal experiences internally with HR for health. I started out on the sales
35:57
side selling the product and a couple years in you know I wasn't super thrilled with where our culture was like
36:04
we're not immune to this stuff even though we're an HR company and so I made a really like weird sharp turn into
36:11
being our operations manager. Um, so I was externally facing all of a sudden the entire company reported to me and
36:18
also I was friends with all of them and then I got promoted and overnight I was not friends with them anymore. They did
36:24
not want to be my friend and I actually went back to the basics of like okay
36:30
what do we have in writing with our handbook? Where's everybody's job descriptions at? like where and and I in
36:36
that moment had no idea what I had been selling previously and like how much it can really help you to change a very
36:44
emotional and honestly kind of toxic situation into something where it's like nope this is going to help me create
36:49
consistency this is going to help them to see how I lead how I hold them accountable how they get to hold me
36:56
accountable and it was like a game changer for me but I every my north star was always
37:02
have I put this in writing and given the right expectations and if I hadn't that's what I did first and then like
37:08
held them accountable consistently and it I'm really proud of like what we were able to to build into that like with
37:15
where our team is now. Oh, that's great. That's super cool. Well, any last minute kind of like I got
37:21
to get this out last minute um you know well I mean I don't think we've given
37:27
you a chance to say what you guys do and oh we don't need a whole sales pitch. Look, like we that's I think it's just
37:34
the awareness of like we started with that. Yeah, we talked a little bit about what we do. I think that you know timing in
37:41
terms of where we're at right now. We're coming to the end of the year. We have the beginning of the year. If if you're
37:46
wondering like, okay, when should I start to put some structure in place? How do I revisit this? It's a this is a
37:53
great time to kind of blame it on there's new laws. I'm getting everything in order. um and kind of use again HR
38:00
for health as like the scapegoat. We're happy to be that scapegoat of just we're putting it all in a new system and now
38:06
it's transparent. Um but yeah, and I think the other piece kind of like of advice I guess I would give is
38:12
just don't ignore those little things like just keep on top of it and real
38:18
like every decision you're making think am I prepared to do this for everybody else? Am I prepared to make this
38:24
exception for everybody else? am I prepared to make this what I you know consolidation whatever it is like that's
38:30
and if you're if the answer is no then um don't do it and really think through
38:36
like what your processes are and just I think the other thing is reach out to HR like even if you're not a client like we
38:42
it is so much easier for us to help you before you make a decision on something or take an action on something than
38:49
afterwards where we totally you know are out it's out of our hands. So, real quick, Jill, Michael asked, you
38:55
know, how do you prevent yourself from being sued? We kind of mentioned them. Three in a nutshell. One, two, three.
39:01
Yes. Employee handbook and do what is said in your employee
39:07
handbook. Hold them accountable. Make sure your time clock un every
39:13
single person is clocking in and out to the time clock. Ideally, your time clock understands what a hygienist is. if
39:18
they're paying percent paid percent production, percent collection per patient, like everyone still needs to be
39:23
able to get overtime and clock in and out. Biggest like risk by far. And then third, that
39:30
documentation like that was four without Oh, sorry.
39:35
I love it. I knew we were gonna have to add I gave you a bonus one. I like that so much.
39:42
I love it. Right. Well, one of the biggest things that I deal with every day, even though it's, you
39:47
know, they're not my offices, is doctors calling me. What do I do here? What do I do there? And I say, look,
39:54
I'm not an HR attorney. I, you know, it's, you know, it's that's a very
39:59
partners say like, and I get I wouldn't want to do that. Actually, we don't want we don't want you guys to have liability
40:04
like in in terms of doing that in a way that maybe isn't best. And and yeah, we
40:09
have so many free resources on hrforhealth.com. We are at least twice a
40:15
year on December 2nd. It's currently scheduled for and it'll be recorded. We do a law updates webinar which is
40:22
literally we break down the laws that are coming up, what you have to do with them specifically for a dental practice.
40:27
And so I would just start to like accustom yourself with that as like a starting point. Um just so you're aware
40:33
of the things you need to be looking out for. I love it. So, so you can not sleep at night even more.
40:38
Yes. Yes. At first it'll be a little scary and then you'll start to get
40:45
call HR for health and be and you'll sleep way better. I promise. Well, thank you Joe for being on the
40:50
show. Of course. Thank you for having me. It's such a blast. I'll be back anytime you want me. I love that. Well, thanks Jill for your
40:56
time. And uh as always folks, just please like, subscribe, follow. Um we
41:02
love those five star reviews, so please do that. And um without further ado, Jill uh with HR for Health, thanks for
41:09
for being on the show. Thank you. All right. Bye. [Music]
41:23
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41:32
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